Mr. Brahimi: Thank you very much. I think I told you yesterday that we were having today this meeting on the reform of the security sector in Afghanistan and in particular of the army. That meeting has taken place very successfully at the initiative of Ambassador James Dobbins and he is going to tell you a few words about this meeting, then Dr. Abdullah will say a few words and we will all be very glad to take some of your questions.

Mr. Dobbins: This was the second meeting of donors called to address security-related projects and issues with respect to Afghanistan. The first meeting was held on the fringes of the larger donors' conference in Tokyo in January and this was the second. The agenda was the same for both meetings and consisted of the following items: building a national army, building a national police force, demobilization, strengthening the judicial and penal systems and administration of justice, and counter narcotics. The meeting was opened by remarks from Minister Abdullah and Lakhdar Brahimi, and then we went through each of those agenda items and discussed the proposals which have now come forward in each area.

There were two documents which were circulated in preparation for the meeting and on which discussions focused. One was a paper prepared by the Afghan Interim Authority and it put forward proposals for the structure and composition and cost for a national army and for a programme of demobilization. The second document was an outline circulated by the United States which outlined the American contribution to the training of an Afghan national army. This paper outlined both what the United States was doing and equally important the many things it was not doing and for which contributions from others were sought. I see you have the second document available to you. I think the first document should be circulated if it has not been since it is the more important of the two and contains significant new details regarding the Afghan Interim Authority's proposals with respect to its own security structures and the type of international support that is needed. In each of the agenda items there were interventions by a number of countries, I think there were 35 delegations present, indicating the contributions which they currently envisaged. However, it was only at this meeting that the specific budget and programmatic proposals were put forward so many delegations will have to review those documents and come forward with pledges in the coming weeks. For that purpose we agreed to hold another session of the same type and with the same participation sometime in the first half of May in order to move from programmatic proposals to specific commitments and programme implementation.

Mr. Brahimi: Dr. Abdullah has taken the lead in presenting this in the discussions on the important subject of creating a national army and demobilization, police and so on. Dr. Abdullah, perhaps you would like to say a few words.

Mr. Abdullah: Thank you. I would like to express my gratitude to the participants of today's meeting, especially Ambassador Dobbins and Ambassador Brahimi for organizing this important meeting. On the sidelines of the world conference there was a security session. The initiative was taken that time as well by Ambassador Dobbins and Ambassador Brahimi about security. While the international community made commitments and pledges in Tokyo, the need to emphasize an important aspect of reconstruction, the need for focus on a major aspect of reconstruction, which is to help the Interim Government to build the capacity for security was also emphasized. But then it was decided at later stages that this issue would be followed up. In the period between then and today, we as the Interim Government, the United Nations Office in Afghanistan led by Ambassador Brahimi, the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) and the countries in the coalition have worked on the framework of security for Afghanistan. The document which will be distributed shows the detailed work which we have done so far as a framework for the Afghan national army, national police force and other security-related institutions. In today's discussions different countries expressed their willingness to contribute in that field which we very much welcomed. The urgency of the need for contributions in the security field is not only acknowledged but steps have been taken by some countries. I think today's meeting was an important step towards that. The idea is of course to hand over the responsibility of security in Afghanistan to the Afghan national army and the national police force. Today's meeting was a great step forward in this regard. You have a detailed framework of that programme with you and we are now ready to answer questions related to the issues discussed today.

Question: Could the speakers give us a bit of an insight on what the other participants in the Conference pledged, in particular neighbouring countries, Russia, Pakistan, India?

Mr. Dobbins: There were a number of preliminary pledges from countries. Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Iran, China, Turkey and the United Kingdom all made pledges of different sorts, of training, equipment and in some cases of money to support the military and the police. A system of coordination was established in each of the five areas to assemble these, to put them together in a package, to review them with the Afghan Interim Authority, and then to hold another meeting in five or six weeks, at which point we can move from discussion of programmes to actual implementation. In the case of the United States, I briefed the group on the request that the Administration has made to the United States Congress. We have asked for $ 278 million in additional funds this fiscal year related to Afghanistan. This includes $ 60 million in the area of law enforcement and counter narcotics that will be more or less evenly split between counter narcotics and to support the development of a national police force. We have asked for $ 50 million to support military training and that would pay for the training programme that is outlined in the paper that you have. We have asked for $ 20 million in money that could be among other purposes used to contribute to the salaries and maintenance expenses of a national military. We have asked for $ 40 million in additional reconstruction assistance. That was additional to the $ 290 million we pledged in Tokyo. And $ 28 million for ISAF for support for the international security force in Kabul, and an additional $ 80 million in economic and political assistance, which, among other purposes, could be used to provide budget support to the Government of Afghanistan and support other programmes, including the demobilization programme that we discussed today. This request is currently before our Congress.

The coordinating mechanism for contributions was that in each of these five areas a different country or institution has agreed to take the lead. On military training, the United States has agreed to take the lead and has been requested to do so by the Afghan Interim Authority. On police, it is Germany, on counter narcotics, it is the United Kingdom, on demobilization, it is the UN Mission in Afghanistan and on support for the judicial, penal and administration of justice sector, it is the Government of Italy. Each of those leads has agreed to fund a significant part of the effort in that area and to assemble contributions from other donors. In each case donors were asked to communicate directly with the lead in that area and when we get back together again in five or six weeks we should have a clear idea of how much support will be available in each of these five areas.

Question: How do you analyse the current security situation in your country? What is the target date for establishing an Afghan police or military? Presumably, it would take some time before these forces are established. In the meantime, how will security be kept in the country? What do you think about the fact that ISAF apparently is not going outside of Kabul?

Mr. Abdullah: With regard to the issue of timing for the formation of a national army and a national police force, one cannot give an exact timetable for it but there is a need, an urgency in our efforts inside the Interim Government as well as the international community. The training of the first contingent of the national army has started and will be finalized this week. Some preliminary work on a police force has already been done in Kabul with the help of the leading nation in this area, which is Germany. But to give a timetable, it is not possible. The current security situation has improved in lots of aspects since the establishment of the Interim Government, but there are still security problems in the country. The remnants of activities of Taliban and Al Qaeda groups in some parts of the country are one security problem. I think that from today and up to a time that we are all confident, the Afghans and the Government of Afghanistan and the international community, about the security and stability of the country, until the Afghan security institutions and bodies can take the responsibility, until then the presence of ISAF is the major stabilizing factor. The continuation of the campaign against terror is needed and making local forces part of the Interim Government for the time being will help us maintain security throughout the country.

Question: Could you give us the total figure needed for this security operation? I am under the impression that this is an exclusively American-financed operation? Have you received any pledges from Arab countries to assist in this or other projects? Have any of the Arab countries attended this meeting?

Mr. Dobbins: Well, it is hard to give you a total figure because it depends on what you are talking about, just the military, or the military and the police and demobilization and the court systems and counter narcotics. The military costs are contained in the paper the Afghan Interim Authority has circulated. I am just looking through it, and it is for $ 235 million. That is more than just training. It is equipment, maintenance, and salaries, a much broader figure. The $187 million is the figure for the police. These are a one-year figure. Some of them are not recurrent costs so the second year might not be as much. It was certainly not an exclusively American effort. Of the $ 235 million that this paper proposes for the military, the United States contribution is the request for Congress to provide $ 50 million for training. There is a great deal of scope for other countries to contribute. To be fair to other countries, none of them had these figures until today. One of the reasons these issues were not discussed in Tokyo was because the Afghan Interim Authority had not made its own proposals for the future of its security structures. And until people had those figures, it was hard to expect them to make a contribution. So I would anticipate that other countries will now begin to come forward based on these figures with figures of their own. There were some figures from countries today, but they tended to be directed to a particular part of the problem.

Mr. Abdullah: In today's meeting there were representatives of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia as well as the United Arab Emirates. Arab countries as a whole made significant pledges in the Tokyo Conference with regard to the reconstruction of Afghanistan as a whole.

Question: Was there an overall sum of money for which you appealed for the police, military, narcotics and so forth? How many men are we talking about in the training of the military and police forces? Dr. Abdullah mentioned pledges, but how much worth do you put in these pledges? When do you actually need to get the money? Is the training and everything else that needs to be done on hold until the money actually comes forward?

Mr. Brahimi: We are talking about armed forces of 60,000, an air force of 8,000 and border guards of 12,000. We are talking about a police force of about 70,000 people. We are talking, in terms of money, about $ 235 million for the army for the current year. Some of this was not recurrent because, for example, there is a lot of money for refurbishing the barracks. All the barracks have been destroyed. Obviously, that will not be repeated next year. About $ 187 million for the employees. For the anti-narcotics, the numbers have not been finalized yet. They are still being worked, depending on what the needs are, how many hectares of narcotics are hopefully going to be destroyed. Demobilization requires projects and development activities, some are just starting and others will start in the future. It is not possible to make a round figure on them. We are talking about 70, 000 people to be demobilized and to be helped to return to civilian life and we are talking about another 100,000 former combatants, people who have lost a limb or have been incapacitated during the many wars of Afghanistan and also need help to start living a decent life in the future. I think the other questions were addressed to Dr. Abdullah.

Mr. Abdullah: On the issue of the pledges made in the Tokyo Conference. On the countries which have made pledges, most of them have started taking action on them. A trust fund which was set up by UNDP and the World Bank for the concurrent costs of the Interim Government had received part of those pledges which were made there. There have been some bilateral contributions in that regard, in terms of grants and other terms. What is urgently needed as of now is contributions for the counter narcotics programme. That programme is extremely urgent since some farmers in parts of Afghanistan are already cultivating opium. The Interim Government has taken certain measures to eradicate the crops, but there, the contribution from the international community is needed, in order to make some compensation for it and to implement the programme. This is the most urgent need. With regard to the construction and building of the national army and national police force, in all aspects of reconstruction, of course, if we do not receive contributions, timewise, we will be in trouble, and the whole process will be in trouble, and peace and stability will be in trouble. In today's meeting, it was very much evident that that awareness was there on the part of the international community. The interests which different countries showed on aspects of security was a sign of that willingness and that interest in making pledges into actions.

Mr. Dobbins: Let me just add a couple of points that put today's figures in some perspective. In Tokyo, the World Bank which prepared the basic document assessed the need for the initial year at $ 1.8 billion for requirements other than security. They received pledges which met that requirement. These figures are not out of line with the overall needs. In Tokyo, people did not earmark money for security, but neither for the most part did they exclude that their contributions could be used for that purpose once programmes were established and so some countries, like the United States, will come forward with new money above and beyond what they pledged in Tokyo. Other countries will apply the money they pledged in Tokyo to programmes that have now been identified. While it is true that much remains to be done, assistance that was pledged in Tokyo is being delivered. The fact is that Afghan civil servants, including police, are being paid as a result of the contributions pledged in Tokyo and which have since been provided. The first battalion of the new Afghan Army will complete its training this week. It has finished its training and that has already begun under British leadership using the assets of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF). The United States will build on that model and carry that programme forward with the assistance of other countries.

Mr. Brahimi: Another point here. Afghans are impatient, very understandably, we all are because the country, which has been neglected so dramatically for 23 years, needs everything today not tomorrow. So that impatience is legitimate and understandable. But we have got to see that things are happening. The back to school programme on 23 March was, I am sure Dr. Abdullah agrees with me, an extremely moving experience. On that day 1.5 million kids have started going to school. As a matter of fact we expect that the number will be much more. Many of the kids are sitting on the floor unfortunately because there are no tables or chairs, but they are in school, their teachers are back, their teachers did training, their teachers are being paid. Progress is made but a lot remains to be done.

Question: Are the anti-narcotics funds also going to be used for crop substitution?

Mr. Abdullah: Yes, part of the funds will be for crop eradication and compensation and part will be as a way to substitute the farmers.

Question: What is the Indian contribution to security? How can Western countries, which are cut off from the reality in Afghanistan, create a durable security regime in Afghanistan?

Mr. Abdullah: In our bilateral talks with the Indian Government as well as in the Tokyo conference, India made a considerable pledge of $ 100 million for assistance in the reconstruction of Afghanistan. In today's meeting India also expressed willingness to contribute in a coordinated manner with the international community in issues of security in Afghanistan. Of course the terms will be subject to further discussion and coordination with the leading nations. With regards to the contributions of the international community, leading nations and different actors, we are grateful to those countries which have taken this responsibility of leading major efforts in the reconstruction of the national army and national police force. While taking this responsibility, they have also made commitments of major contributions. But the concept, the programme and framework is an Afghan framework, according to the reality and needs of Afghanistan and also to the ability and realistic aspects of the programme. The fact that one country is considered as the leading nation in one programme does not exclude others from contributing, but it rather puts more burden on that one nation. But it will be of course according to the needs and requirements of the Afghan Interim Authority or the Transitional Government.

Mr. Dobbins: In addition to India, the Governments of Bangladesh, Pakistan, Iran and China all made specific proposals today to contribute in the police and or military sector. It is not surprising, as did Russia and other countries, but we are talking particularly of the neighbours. It was not surprising that the richer countries are looked at to make the larger contributions, but all the neighbours and friends of Afghanistan have shown a willingness to participate in this process of creating new national institutions.

Question: Did the Taliban really eradicate opium crops? If so, were there substitution crops? What is the situation now?

Mr. Abdullah: In the last years of the Taliban, they managed to eradicate the opium cultivation to a large extent, I will not say 100 per cent, but the cultivation had doubled and tripled before that. Since the establishment of the Interim Government, a decree was issued which considered that contribution in the trafficking and processing of opium was illegal. Despite that, unfortunately, in some parts of Afghanistan, farmers started cultivating opium. The issue that I referred to before as an urgent issue is to deal with today's situation where farmers have started cultivating opium, what to do about it, but then of course there is the long-term strategy to eradicate it in a sort of sustainable manner. Nevertheless, this issue of opium is a chronic issue in Afghanistan due to the continuation of the war for over two decades and the poverty and underdevelopment. Once again, the fight against drugs has been one of our priorities in the reconstruction. It takes a lot more effort than just law enforcement measures. It takes crop substitution, agricultural development, development of infrastructure in rural areas, rural development programmes, education and so on. The Interim Government is determined to pursue it in the short term and long term, and the international community has promised to help us and to support our efforts.

Question: When the Taliban eradicated the poppy cultivation, was there no substitution crop at all? If not, what did the farmers live on?

Mr. Abdullah: I think the Taliban work was only for one year and no such programme was implemented.

Question: On the question of the international community effectively holding the purse-strings on the Afghan security forces over the next few years. Do you fear that this will also lead to undue pressure on you in terms of your security policy and implementation and policing within the country from countries outside Afghanistan?

Mr. Abdullah: No, I think the contributions are welcome by the Interim Government and by the people of Afghanistan. The people of Afghanistan know that we cannot rely on the presence of multinational forces or coalition forces in Afghanistan for our own security and stability forever. In fact, the more contributions, the more happy the people will be, they do not contradict. Our interests are the interests of the people.

Question: How much support do you have from the provinces, especially in the western part of the country, to set up a national security force and a national police? You said that you would demobilize 70,000 people. If I am right, there were about 30,000 fighters in the United Front and about 50,000 on the Taliban side. Does it mean that a lot of former Taliban fighters will be among those that will be decommissioned?

Mr. Abdullah: There is overall support from all corners of Afghanistan for the Interim Government and the political process. You mentioned one or two examples, yes, your examples include it. But there is overall support from the population of Afghanistan for the Interim Government as well as from the local authorities. That is as far as the political process in the whole programme is concerned. For the issues of the national police force and the national army, recently we had two conferences in Kabul. In one, participants were local authorities, division commanders and commanders from all over Afghanistan. In the other one, there were governors from all over Afghanistan who participated. That concept was agreed upon as a whole by all those participants on both occasions.

Mr. Brahimi: The numbers 30,000, 50,000 have never been ascertained by anybody. What is certain is that there was a lot of recruitment since the wars have finished. That always happens in situations like this. I know it from personal experience. I think these numbers are reasonably well established numbers for demobilization. And on the second part of your question, I do not think that there are many Taliban that are going to be demobilized in this effort. Thank you.

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